Sweet Tea & Theology

The much awaited book by both Roman Catholics and Protestants is here.  It is none other than former President of the Evangelical Theological Society, Dr. Francis J. Beckwith’s new book Return to Rome: Confessions of an Evangelical Catholic.

Quite the title, huh?   This is the reason this book will appeal to both Catholics and Protestants.  We all want to see, “What happened?”  Most likely, Catholics will want to see what they can learn from Beckwith’s journey that will help them evangelize Romanize Protestants.  We Protestants will want to know how to keep such a “return” from happening and address any misunderstandings.

BrazosPress, the publisher’s website, lists some questions that the book addresses.

What does it mean to be evangelical? What does it mean to be Catholic? Can one consider oneself both simultaneously?

Yes, what does it mean to be Evangelical?  Even a modern dictionary will point you to Protestantism.  My understanding of being Catholic is that you abandon key Protestant positions such as the Five Solas.  And embrace such doctrines as the immaculate conception of Mary, purgatory, transubstantiation and the doctrine of infallibility to name a few.  So I’d like to see these definitions and whose definitions they are. It seems that the only way to blend these positions is to redefine Evangelical.  Let’s move to the answer.

The answer given?

He seeks to explain what prompted his decision and offers theological reflection on whether one can be evangelical and Catholic, affirming his belief that one can be both.

If this stated answer is true then categorically one could be a Catholic and an Evangelical without joining the Catholic church. Of course, Rome would never go for that. I want to read this book to see how such a position is worked out. What is lost?  What is gained?  What is unchanged?

I am eager to see what definitions are used of words like Evangelical and Catholic.  Whatever Beckwith has to say on these things, in more ways than one, the Devil is certainly in the details.

UPDATE: Dr. Beckwith has created a site about the book,  Return to Rome.  Seems as though there are going to be some excerpts from the book.

UPDATE II: What would James White ask Beckwith today?  Some very good questions!

A commenter also stopped by to answer the question of “What is an Evangelical Catholic?

I have to wonder if this movement/position is sanctioned by Rome.

For your indulgence…

Mark

HT: JT

Our friend Chris Arnzen, host of the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Show, is having Christian apologist, Ravi Zacharias as a guest.

As I understand listeners will be able to call in with questions and a downloadable mp3 will be available after the show.

He will be speaking on the theme of his book NEW BIRTH Or REBIRTH? JESUS TALKS WITH KRISHNA .

WHEN: Monday, July 14, 2008, 3-4 PM est

WHERE: Listen Live by clicking here

CALL WITH QUESTIONS: 1-631-321- WNYG (9694)]

CLICK HERE for full details.

SDG,

Mark

p.s. What are the odds that I call in and get lunch with Ravi since we live very close to each other?

Monsignor Lorenzo Albacete

He reads Paul in his context?

On Buddhist salvation, the Buddhist will get to heaven “probably faster than I will.”

How about an atheist? Just watch.

Not sure what it’s worth…

Mark

Below is a song that is full of biblical theology.  Is it a hymn?  What kind of song do you think it is?  I recently got the current album of this musician from iTunes.

Can you guess where lyrics below come from?

TRIUNE PRAISE LYRICS
VERSE 1
Praise God the Father, the Immortal Creator (1 Cor. 8:6)
For Your glory you made us (Is. 43:6), You’re the Sovereign Orchestrator (Eph. 1:11)
All that You decree will most surely come to happen (Is. 14:24)
You’re awesome as can be and Your glory none can fathom (Ps. 104:1)
Nothing could ever stain You, the heavens can’t contain You (2 Chron. 6:18)
We thank You for sending Your Son to explain You (John 1:18)
Otherwise we would have remained in the dark but You sent Your Holy Spirit to spark a change in our hearts (Matt. 4:16-17, 2 Cor. 4:6)
According to Your eternal purpose and will
You determined to reveal Yourself to those who deserve to be killed
(Luke 10:21, Rom. 1:32)
Those of us whom You foreknew adore You
We praise You that You predestined us to be conformed to
The image of Your Son who’s the radiance of Your glory
(Romans 8:29, Heb. 1:3)
When I meditate on it, the weightiness of it floors me
(1 Chron. 16:25,Psalm 139:6)
So Father, we’ll praise you over and over again (Ps. 34:1)
Because You sent Your only Son to atone for our sins (Dan. 9:24,1 John 4:9)

CHORUS
Glory to the Father, Glory to the Son,
Glory to The Spirit- Three and Yet One
One in Your essence, Three in Your Person
The same in Your nature, distinct in Your working
Oh my soul- behold the wonder of the Trinity
Blessed be the Trinity, Oh, what a mystery!
I’ll stand amazed for the rest of my days
Pouring out my heart in Triune praise

Who do you think this is?

Believe it or not it is hip-hop artist Shai Linne. Click the picture and you can download this song along with a devotional, the lyrics, reflection questions and book recommendations for further study. His new album The Atonement is now available and the whole thing is deep. You can also download a free album from the Lamp Mode site called Grassroots which might be something you could give away as a way to reach out to someone.

Imagine if our contemporary worship songs were as deep!

Mark

A friend from church sent me a test that’s described below.

Yankee or Dixie?
Check on your dialect and see if you might have crossed over to the “other side”! Simply click on the correct answer. As you go, the quiz will automatically interpret each answer to show you what your answer implies about you. When you are done, press Compute My Score. Your score will be calculated as a percentage: 0% is pure Yankee and 100% is pure Dixie.

You can join the fun and take the quiz now!

Click here to see my results!

I was recently left a very cavalier comment by a pastor.  You may read it here.  I will leave the comment for now although I don’t really want to clutter that particular page with such exchange.  So I will reproduce the comment here with some interaction.  I will try not to trade insult for insult though my wife was none to happy about the comment.

I do not like the cavalier way you approach the Bible and Christian issues.
I am Dawson Morrison Pastor of Mountain Home Baptist Church in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
People like you run around collecting up unholy dust and muses of the devil; you will find a host of friends as you continue down that path of relevance, but you will find no consolation from heavenly host.

I don’t like the cavalier way you come here accusing me.  You don’t know me, but you certainly can learn a whole lot more about me than I can about you by simply reading this site.  Notice there are no examples to support this charge of being cavalier.  Also, if we keep this charge of being cavalier in mind the whole post wreaks of irony.

What is “unholy dust” anyways?  Muses of the devil?  Again, no examples.  I have found a host of friends amongst whom many are pastors.  The path of relevance?  Hardly!  Just have a look around.  I’m not even close to being a emergent nor post-modern thinker.

Here is an article I want to share with you on my feelings for alcohol. I will plainly state that Jesus NEVER drank fermented wine. I believe in total abstinence. I am certain the Bible teaches total abstinence.

Once the “Jesus never drank fermented wine” argument comes up it’s very hard to find a common starting point.  It’s actually almost fruitless (no pun intended) to dialogue.  I’m certain the Bible doesn’t teach total abstinence and even God told those in the Old Testament to buy wine or strong drink if they so desired.

The crowds supporting casual or social drink do so because of their personal desire for alcohol and their interest in compromise.

This certainly goes to questioning ones motives without actually “listening” to the reasons given for moderation.  I guess those folks who believe in moderation are lying in their reasons?  Can our commenter judge that too?  What about the folks like Al Mohler or John Piper who believe the Bible doesn’t teach abstinence, yet personally abstain?  What are their motives?

Or how about people like me who came out of a cult?  A cult believing Joseph Smith to be a prophet and one teaching that a drop of alcohol would send one to hell?  Have you ever thought how freeing the grace of Christ is in these situations?

There are so many little wimp laymen, who have not been called by the Holy Spirit to shepherd churches, yet they are expert theologians.

I can’t tell if you are speaking about me here or not since “laymen” is plural and the charge general.  My wife really didn’t like this comment.  She was upset and laughing at the same time that you might infer that I’m a wimp.  I found it amusing.  I would say that there just might be pastors who fall into this “wimp” category.  Yet we have a graceful Savior who is a far greater Savior than we all are sinners.

The other thing though is I don’t shepherd a church, but I certainly do share in ministering to folks.  I’ve been complemented about my blog, personal teaching and relationship as well as about my kid.  I say that not to boast, but to give you some facts.  I’ve not met any laymen nor pastors who claim to be expert theologians.

I have 42 years on the job as a SBC Pastor; it irks me when I cross the path of such pathetic and futile exercise.

I’m sorry you’ve formed an opinion as such.  Although, I don’t know where that came from.  That is, if I assume you’re referring to me.  Again, you don’t know me and your comments and approach here would not be considered very pastoral from my non-expert point of view.

Please go study William Patton’s book, “Bible Wines”.

Perhaps Mr. Patton should have read the Rev. John McLean’s articles in the 1841 Princeton Review for the months of  April and October.  Please study those articles and read Ken Gentry’s God Gave Wine: What the Bible Says About Alcohol. Readers may also find this debate between Ken Gentry vs. Stephen Reynolds On a Biblical understanding of beverage alcohol use.

OPEN LETTER ON ALCOHOL USE
Compiled and written by: Dawson Morrison, Pastor
Mountain Home Baptist Church

This should be more fairly titled “Abuse” rather than “Use.”

“Reassert our truceless and uncompromising hostility to the manufacture, sale, importation and transportation of alcoholic beverages” SBC (1896).

We can trade historical baptist moments, but the Bible is what’s important.

• It appears it does not take much alcohol to impact a person physiologically. Researchers at the University of Washington in Seattle determined among test subjects that even one “strong drink” can cause a “substantial perceptual deficit.” This “inattentional blindness” in those whose blood alcohol level was less than half the legal limit resulted in these individuals being more likely not to notice an object that appeared unexpectedly in their line of sight (Reuters, “One strong drink can make you ‘blind drunk’,” July 4, 2006).

While I believe abstinence has absolute biblical underpinning, sociological indicators persuade me that any use, social or other, is unwise.

An adolescent’s view of alcohol is positively associated with his or her parents’ drinking behavior and attitudes, I suppose in much the same way a child’s view of prayer and personal Bible study is impacted by his or her parents’ behavior.

A study done a few years ago found that in homes where the parents were total abstainers from alcohol, 16 percent of the teenagers in the home experimented with alcohol before adulthood. In homes were the parents were social drinkers, 66 percent of the children experimented with alcohol before adulthood.

And a child who drinks before age 15 is four times more likely to develop alcohol dependence, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism reports. Furthermore, recent studies have shown the alarming extent to which alcohol decimates an adolescent’s still-developing brain and nervous system - far more harshly than it does those of an adult.

In modern American society, the human toll taken by alcohol abuse is staggering. According to a recent USA Today/ 20 percent of Americans indicated they “had an immediate relative who at some point had been addicted to alcohol or drugs.” The article, “In Tim Ryan’s Family, He is the Addict,” in the July 20, 2006, issue of USA Today notes, “That translates into roughly 40 million American adults with a spouse, parent, sibling or child battling addiction.”

I think I have responded enough.  The first charge against me was “I do not like the cavalier way you approach the Bible and Christian issues.” Then we get a position supported by research rather than the Bible.  I don’t discredit that research, but a charge was made concerning the Bible.  There is good information in the above and some of it ambiguous.  This certainly doesn’t make the case that the Bible teaches abstinence.  It just shows what sinful people can do when they abuse, not just use, substances like alcohol.  I can tell you stories about abuses in people’s lives.  Things you wouldn’t believe from people who may just live around the corner.

At the end of the day we, as people, must understand our sinful state before God.  As Scripture tells us in Mark 7 it is not what goes into us that defiles us, but what comes out of our hearts.

For what it’s worth…

Mark